Raising the While Flag on 604 Project

[dooey263]

I didn't have time to read all the posts in this discussion, so this answer may have already have been stated....

I have owned and listened to many tube amplifiers, and basically I have surmised that the bass sucks in most of them. It's the #1 problem I have by far in getting my systems to sound "good to me". I am currently running 604-8K's in 620 cabs, in one system, and 515B's in 828 cabs in another... the bass should be great in either, not earthshakingly low, but nice punchy midbass... Which is what I want. But unfortunately, about 75% or better of the tube amps I have tried fail miserably. Interestingly enough, the current incarnation of power for the 604-8k's (without mentioning brands) uses wee little el84's run in triode,class A,around 2 watts output, with the preamp using 6dj8 running full out in class A all the time. When I plugged this combo in, it was like I added a subwoofer!

So maybe it's not so much the speakers, but more of an Amp- Preamp problem......

Hope this helps.... Scott

[drummerwill]

Hi Dooey

As a lover of tube amps and a DIY builder for a few years now, I can understand your disapointment in what your Altecs should be doing.

I can say there is hope... New technuques in Class A SET and PP powersupply design is
on the verge of bringing that sound you want to your Altec systems without use of subs.
( OK along with a little EQ'ing for my taste).

But the fact remains, SET amps can be designed to be full bodied and full range, with dynamics and pace to satisfy the most demanding of listeners. The secret lies in the Simple signal curcuit design and a Superior power supply design all done with quality parts...

I'm there now , a 2 stage 2A3 Triode directly coupled 3 watt amplifier, that can take a 604 or 828 system and drive it to make it bounce, twist, turn, inside out , upside-down or any other trick music can do, and do it with the smoothnest and grace the music deserves.

Today ...this sound is possible you need only seek out the information.


Have fun!
Willie

[gearfreak]

When I plugged this combo in, it was like I added a subwoofer!

Not by any means to speak for the man himself of course, but you may look up GM's posts, regarding (paraphrasing) "...period correct high output impedance..." amps. It may provide some insight, per the B's in 828 cabs.

Advance search for author GM and string 'output impedance' should do the trick.

- may not apply to your newer 604's, but may...
- does not explain the 75%/25% breakdown per se.

Sooner than later I hope to rewire my Almarro to run in SET and see... there's a decware on auction locally, but it's already TRFMB.

[SOOTSHE]

I've just spent some time reading the whole 16 pages of this thread & honestly I can't believe what is happening here.
You don't really expect high end, detailed, classic speakers to sound correctly by connecting them to 20 yo Cd players & non descript electronics.

You need to go back to basics here. Double check all your cabinet joints (I seal all the joints in my cabinets with a bead of silicone, regardless of who made them). Your cabinets appear to be very well made & I can't imagine they are contributing to the problems you are having, although I am a little dubious of the downward firing port.

It doesn't matter what your previous speakers sounded like with your current electronics, these Altecs will sound totally different with them.

Beg, borrow or steal some decent electronics, cables & source & you could end up saving yourself a whole lot of heartache.....not that you haven't gone through that already.

And whoever told you that your 20yo Cd player can't affect the sound....don't take any more advice from them.

Sorry to be so blatantly harsh here, but it really riles me that due to others advice you've been through this escapade & nearly sold a classic pair of speakers.
Please, please give them a fair chance to perform.
Remember....garbage in...garbage out.

Good luck.

[rastanearian]

I am also in the middle of a 604 (E) project and would be interested in what has come of this puzzle.

[cradeldorf]

I'm interested in knowing how much a pair of Don's ultimate crossovers cost and how I can get some.